08 March 2009

No, I'm Not Linking.

Partly because I don't want to disparge other blogs and partly because I want to discuss issues on their own merits. I'm just gonna discuss issues here. You go ahead and comment without referring to the blog you think is in question, because these are issues I have seen on more than one blog and I am NOT picking on your friend. See? That's why I'm not linking.

But here we go.

Women going to college

I never knew that women should never go to college until I read blogs. Apparently they must stay home and learn to crochet and be submissive to their future husbands. I guess that's great if you're hanging out with a bunch of other families with the same mindset... your kid actually has a chance of snagging a decent husband and not ending up as an old maid and rotting goods at the age of 25.

OK, that was mean. But wow. If you make her wait to get married when she's old like that, she'll have trouble having at least 14 kids by the time she's 40. *wink*

I'm not sure I'd ever send my daughter to a state school far away or even send her to public school given some of the problems we've experienced with our boys. I do want to protect my daughter. For me, though, I can't imagine limiting her social circle *quite* so much. For me, we're traipsing into "stifling" when we expect our daughters just just sit at home, look demure and wait for Prince Charming to somehow discover that she lives at 123 Any Street and come courting. And deal with her dad. And her five brothers. And the private investigation firm we'll be hiring.

One blog I read suggested that before marriage, the young man must agree to a total computer history search. That would be one special guy, to agree to that. But I have a secret confession to make to all 9,000 of you who read this blog. Once I was looking up information on "Clubhouse Jr." magazine and typed in brilliant search words like "clubhouse magazine for boys." Oh, there are other clubhouses besides the magazine. More "fun" than just the comics. Some "boys" are a little older than others. And the pictures. Well, don't type that search if you don't want to see the pictures *I* did, ok? So, I'm not even sure I would pass the computer history test, and I'm old and crotchety and wasn't looking for what I found. Nevermind when I amended my search, hoping to find "samples" of the magazine online. Yowie.

OK, so anyway. I am thinking of discouraging certain kids from going to college, but my reasoning isn't sheltering so much as "for this kid, it's a waste of money and time, so let's do something else."

Politics and religion

Wow, I also had no idea that you weren't allowed to vote your religious conviction before I read the blogs. Apparently there's some sort of "separation of church and state" and we Christians need to get with the program. ESPECIALLY if we're for government allowing personal freedoms in other areas, we need to vote that gays, lesbians, gender-neutral and whatevers can all marry. It doesn't matter that that's directly contrary to what we believe. We're hypocrites if we don't, by the way... (??!)

We're also not showing love to other people when we want our society to discourage activities we TRULY BELIEVE will send them on a path straight to Hell. We're just like Fred Phelps and his Westboro friends (pics usually included on blogs with happy "we're glad you're burning in Hell" sign goodness) because both they and we profess to be Christians. Hm. So if I said all atheists were just like Lenin, that would be accurate? All Germans are just like Hitler? Okaaaay...

You know, I saw this same reasoning with pictures on at least FIVE blogs. Same reasoning, and almost same wording. I don't get it, because as much as I kid around, I really don't think everyone's drinking the Kool-Aid.

FYI, we're also worse than Islamics when we vote our religious convictions. See, if you're a Muslim, that's part of your ethnic heritage and everyone needs to respect that. If you're a Christian, though, you made a PERSONAL DECISION to be intolerant. We need to have more "diversity training" in schools -- and require YOUR children to attend said schools -- so that future generations will understand the Truth. Oh, and liberals get to define Truth because you conservatives are soooo wack that your opinion doesn't even count.

On the Bible

It's the inerrant Word of God, yo. You can agree or disagree with that supposition, but every thought and opinion I have, I feel I need to go back and match it up with that "checklist," guide for living and all-purpose text for living that is the Bible.

So.

If we disagree on science because you see evidence for "millions of years" this and that, and I look backwards through the begets and reason that the earth really can't be that old, we're never going to agree. The end. Now, I don't mind your telling me your reasoning. Can you listen while I tell you mine?

Our very definitions of "science," I think, are going to be different.

More on the Bible

I hope I don't pick and choose scripture, but some of the emphases on odd scriptures by people who don't even follow the faith are a bit maddening.

I can eat shellfish and bugs any time I want, thanks. I just... don't.

And yes, God allowed for slavery, divorce and all kinds of bad stuff. Did you read the part in the New Testament where Jesus talks about allowing divorce because of the hardness of men's hearts? Do you not imagine that He allowed slavery for the same reason? Oh, and look again at that passage. It's more like "indentured servitude" than the cotton-picking kind that usually springs to mind. NOT that that is preferrable to kindness. NOT. But I have read through some of the ways that wars and the like were conducted and wondered if this were God's way of sparing some lives and integrating the people into a new culture. You go ahead and give me your opinion on this one, because mine is not firmly set. :]

There are a lot of messed-up appearing passages to the modern reader, though, I grant you. Offering your kid as a sacrifice? Um, yeah... that's a test I would not pass. Sorry. Telling people outside your door that they can mess with your daughters before they touch your guest? Icky. I do NOT get it. I'm pretty sure there are tons of cultural things and whatnot written in there that don't go with today's culture.

My understanding is that the culture changes, but God does not. So, the behaviour of a respectable person who shows kindness and love might "look" different in one era than another. But that understanding is subject to change without notice as I learn more about the world. :p

One thing that doesn't make sense, though... Are you ready for this?

Even more on the Bible

Why are Christians today not at the forefront of animal rights legislation? The book of Acts talks about avoiding sexual immorality AND stuff that's killed all wrong. (Acts 15:20). So why are we all hepped up about gay sex and divorce but not demanding "strangle-free" stickers on our chicken leg packets? I'm just wondering. It is really bothering Elf especially and I'd like an answer to this question.

It seems a shame that animal rights groups seem to be populated by people who are totally against the eating of meat, etc. It seems to me that kindness to animals is all through the scripture. Even God tells Noah in Genesis 9:4 that he will ask each animal an accounting of its blood. From the beginning of time, God seems to be looking for humane treatment of animals.

Your opinion?

23 comments:

  1. Oh goody! I'm feeling opinionated at the moment. Have you noticed?

    Now lets see ~ forget which one but psalms says the righteous man looks well to the needs of his animals so yeah, Elf is right. Unfortunately I can't convince the rest of my house that we shouldn't be eating meat. They don't like beans & tofu. A bit later in that Genisis section it talks about judgement on animals for shedding man's blood so I really don't think we should provoke them, do you?

    As for not sending the girl to college, you know I never understood this one. We want uneducated people educating our kids? Well their kids but you know what I mean. Seriously I figure education never goes astray. The more education the more you have to share & teach, right? Besides lots of middle eastern countries don't educate their women & I can't say hat's been a real smart move...one I probably shouldn't get into on your blog.

    Someone else can have a turn now.

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  2. I am very tired of the
    Don't send your kids to college if they are girls.

    Without my mother's college education, and her teaching job, we would have had no money after my parents divorced.

    No.
    Money.

    Hmm.
    Even moms need money.

    And when I read about wives submitting to their husbands in all things, I check the calendar. Whew! Ok. . . thank the Lord! It is truly 2009! Not 1835 like the blog was reading ;-)

    I love your blog! :)

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  3. Anonymous, I am sorry to hear about your parents' divorce. I think this is one aspect to the argument that people who believe girls shouldn't go to college don't REALLY consider. They think if they screen the young man well enough, pray hard enough, or their daughter is submissive enough, things will all work out.

    They don't always.

    I don't think we should automatically ASSUME every child should go to college... and in some ways I think it's a waste of a lot of money... but the *because it's a girl* argument... it bothers me. It seems that God might actually call an occasional girl to be a medical missionary or an occasional boy to be a house husband.

    I mean, sometimes.

    OK, and...

    SOMETIMES I think boys can get teased that they're "gay" because they like sewing or housework? It isn't fair to do to someone.

    Ganeida, I think the Muslim thing might be cultural because the few Muslims I have seen around have been either teachers or looking around in the library LOL!

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  4. And don't forget the whole "parental rights" argument, so predominant among the same parents determined to keep girls out of college and the workforce (the library, the movie theatre, the doctor's office even) and insisting that Caesar's law must be God's law, not separate. I'm thinking of the wrangling over the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child, which recently led me to ponder some of the same questions that trouble Mrs. C. --

    (Quoting from Snook)
    "I say congruent parent and child human rights are the highest and best value, so any manufactured controversy setting them up to clash rather than converge, within the family or the society, ought to be a red flag, but here we are with two conflicting sides to the controversy, so let's see which is the higher value.

    We could start with which is the right QUESTION? How best to protect worldwide every child's basic human right to learn, think and live free -- or how to protect American parental rights to do as they see fit with and to their own spawn? What would Jesus ask first, I wonder?

    Here is a southern conservative evangelical law professor writing in this paper many thoughts about how we could at least ask better questions, if we want to understand each other and move forward rather than just teach more controversies and never resolve or reconcile conflict. It's a pdf file and if you don't want to read it now, please, save it because you may need it sometime you least expect it. "

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  5. Yeah, there are some - um - diverse (!?) out there in Blogovania. One thing I've discovered is that you can't argue with some people because they are mentally in a different universe.

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  6. JJ, WHOOO, that is one *interesting* paper. First, the author claims to be in a religious circle that looks at the Rights of the Child document with suspicion (but won't disclose which one, which makes me wonder if it's one anyone I know would think holds "weight")... and then he cites JIMMY CARTER as an example of a Christian who combines human rights advocacy with his religion (?? This man is no friend of Israel and I question his creds right there... oh my...)

    THEN the author says that we can just adopt the treaty with some sort of stipulation that we interpret certain parts to mean certain things...

    Um...

    Which...

    I don't know any Christian in conservative circles who even thinks the UN ought to be AROUND... let alone that we should start ratifying treaties from 'em and giving them money.

    Bad enough the laws we make for ourselves, but another story. :]

    Though he does point out that laws protecting children necessarily restrict their autonomy AND that the state, well, no way the state has time to get mixed up with every little dispute between Mom and kid so don't worry about it.

    I'm worried anyway. :] I just know what it felt like when Elf was in public school. I still have older kids in the school. BUT it's hard enough knowing you can back out at any time, take your kid and go home. To think some bureaucrat could turn you into this UN "advisory" committee is really, really, really CHILLING.

    All that to say, I guess we can talk about making better law. But I'd like it to at least be better law that my representatives work on rather than one some penny-auntie dictator's peons formed in a committee. :]

    Harry, you've had some strange ones on your blog. I think one of 'em basically came out and said you know nothing about Islam unless you read my fave website and talk to an imam and la la la I'm not listening to youuuuu.

    Um, so why are you bothering to comment, is what I wonder when I read such things...??

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  7. Of course, having "your representatives" write the law isn't much help either, not when the pendulum is on its opposite swing and the hardcore religious right is a third or less of public opinion, and refuses to work with the exasperated majority. My own kid sister gave me an earful yesterday about "Obama" and how he was ruining everything with his higher taxes on business, etc etc -- she's had a tough time for 20 years but for personal reasons, not the president. I pointed out that the tax increases (and cuts) hadn't taken effect yet so that can't be causing the recession, foreclosures or her struggles, and you would've thought I spit on her bible . . .

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  8. Mrs. C. Good day! Let's see ~ I went to college. I've got more degrees than a thermometer. Actually, just two. But, I am still a Christian... I am still a fairly submissive wife... I do have a fairly libertarian view of the role of government, but I think I caught that from my family of origin. If Marissa wanted to go to college and I thought she could pass, I would support it. Marissa cannot pass unless she goes to one of those schools that give you a degree just for appearing consistently in class.

    I have had people comment on my blog about the separation of church and state and say something about Christians voting for things that they believe in. These sorts of people don't seem to understand the Constitution -- the government can't take taxpayer money and set up a State church and make everyone join or face decapitation. An individual citizen can vote for whatever issues they want. That being said, I am increasingly irritated at para-church organizations trying to create a Utopia by making rules about everything. What if we did what Jesus said and made disciples of all people, teaching them to obey all I commanded you? We wouldn't need to make murdering preborn infants illegal. No one would do it...

    Anyway, that is all I have time for. I get to put my kids to bed! Yeah me!!! It has been a long, really long day. Maybe I will blog about it.

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  9. I am with you and Elf on the animal rights, sister. all the way.

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  10. Firstly, I admit to not reading your whole post (sorry! I got excited and felt the need to respond NOW).

    Secondly? I only have one child, a daughter, who is aged 11 (very nearly 12). She is my own precious (yes, that is a reference to a book/movie!!) and I adore her and wish her nothing but the best in life, BUT...

    I am a *modern* woman. I was financially independent when I met my future husband. I had as much, or more, money in the bank as him, had been living independently for several years and working full time. I was *better* educated than him, in that I had finished high school and he had not. I now also have a university degree.

    Interestingly, I am also 11 years younger than him :) so I guess maybe I grew up in a slightly different generation.

    Our daughter is unique, intelligent, beautiful and has a heart of gold. She also has a mouth, and attitude and a very good understanding of her 'rights'. We have been drilling into her the fact that she also has 'responsibilities' and that most of her 'rights' are actually 'privileges'!!

    She has been raised in a generally 'Christian' household, inasmuch as we are not Muslim or Jewish. We go to church sometimes, she has been involved in Sunday School and has also been an altar server, so she does belong to a church community, but has recently chosen to distance herself from that. Fine, I respect that.

    Her dearest wish at the moment is to have a 'boyfriend', whatever that means at this age. I try to encourage her to enjoy friendships with boys and girls, and not worry so much about the whole 'relationship' thing. An uphill battle!!

    She dresses 'as she pleases' to some extent- I usually get the final say on an outfit. Her makeup is strictly limited to school day clear lip gloss, and weekend 'light' makeup. Her skirt length is monitored, as is her general 'exposure'- no bare belly skin, limited tight, revealing clothing, an awareness of the effect her developing body has on the male population.

    My baby is growing up and this comment is becoming a post. To sum up- she is caught between childhood and adolescence and needs a 'firm' but loving hand more now than ever. I am lucky in that she still loves and respects me enough to listen to me, but I am aware that very, very soon, her peers will have the biggest influence. I just pray that the foundations we have built are strong enough.

    Stepping off my soapbox now. Thanks!! Sorry!

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  11. ~You already know that I question the whole "daughters confined to house, wife-in-training, help-her-father" mindset. Why is my adult daughter not free to follow God's path for her own life? Am I supposedly all-knowing, all-seeing able to predict exactly how her life will turn out? And besides, my husband already has a helper: ME!

    ~Yea, Woodjie!

    ~As for politics and religion, I believe we should vot our conviction, while keeping in mind the our government is not a theocracy. For example, some though it was wrong of me for voting for McCain, even if it was only to vote against Obama. Well, especially if was a vote against Obama. But you take what you can get, no? I'm against abortion, gay marriage, and infringemnet on the rights of parents. And there were tose who thought that since McCain wasn't COMPLETELY pro-life, then a vote for him was evil. My thinking was that if my vote could save even one baby that's better than the 20 million that would be slaughtered worldwide under Obama. All that to say that in politics, the lesser of two eveils is all you're gonna get no matter who you vote for- even Chuck Baldwin!

    ~The Bible is true. Even the parts I don't live up to. Amen.

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  12. ((JJ)) Fun family times, I'm sure. I get rather the opposite with the liberals in my family LOL. But I don't think Obama is the Antichrist...yet. He has to go into Jerusalem first and reveal "the abomination of desolation." Once he does that, I will be too busy running for the hills to worry too much about the UN, I promise.

    *wink*

    The thing is, even IN the Bible, everyone came to his own conclusion about what Jesus was supposed to do and He didn't always fit their agenda. So, I'm guessing it's more than possible I could be wrong way more than once. :]

    Republicanism is NOT (not not not) the Bible. That really bugs me because I voted for Jay Nixon to be Attorney General for years and years and he is a *gasp* Democrat.

    I know. Shocking.

    Julie, I'm with you. You know, during election season and after, I got about FIVE emails a day from certain para-religious organizations starting with the word "Obama" in the subject line and ending with a plea for prayers and money.

    You know, I don't like Obama. I don't mind them using the fact that he did this or that to raise funds, because they're gonna need 'em. But um... too far. Just too far.

    Minty, thank you for commenting and encouraging me and the Elf!

    Tracey, I grew up in a household like yours. Jesus was a nice guy and we were "Christian," but really secular. I think a lot of more conservative types don't understand what that's like and how the balance is a little different for these families.

    My mother threw away my "Dominatrix in Training" t-shirt when I was 15 and I was so mad! LOL Ok, now I can see why she might have had good reason to do that.

    Terry, you were one of the BIG BIG reasons I changed my mind and voted McCain. Are my convictions that important that I will use them to "waste" my vote, knowing what the consequences could be? It was a hard decision, but at least now when I see Obama in office I can say with a clear conscience that "I didn't do that."

    Thank you, friend.

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  13. Now THAT'S a t-shirt, Mrs. C! :)
    Even your mother would approve. We can all wear it, for our own reasons:
    "Too far, just too far". . .

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  14. My wife went to college.

    I'm very happy about that fact because that's where I met her [smile].


    I vote for what I consider to be the best option. Hopefully that is consistent with my everything I have learned, know, and believe. ...though I may be a tad "wack" [smile].


    "What good does it do us to say the Bible is inerrant if we can't interpret it inerrantly?" When "science" and "the Bible" disagree, I try to keep the fact that my understanding of both could be misapplied.


    I like eating meat. On the other hand, I think that being a good steward and caring for the earth--things it appears God put us here to do--requires that we practice good husbandry with animals. So, I buy cage-free eggs (my wife says they taste a ton better anyway), and try to stay away from growth hormones and the like.

    ~Luke

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  15. Do you think subconsciously there's some effect at work among Christian conservatives, that it's unsettling or even ungodly, for America to elect families in which terminal degrees were earned by both the First Lady and um, Second Lady? Not to mention those well-sculpted and oft-uncovered arm muscles on Mrs. Obama, and come to think of it she's unusually tall to be the little woman too. . .maybe we're onto something here?

    Mrs. C, what about women in the military and especially in combat? How is that reconciled in the minds of biblical literalists?

    I heard the other day that the American workforce is now fully 50% women and we're about to become the majority. In times when there's not enough work to go around, not just immigration becomes an issue but also paternalistic social pressure increases on ALL women and girls -- not just certain Christians -- to stay home and leave worldly matters to the men (IOW get out of the way; give up their place in education and income and power, because men need it) . . . times like these, for instance. . .

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  16. I briefly considered calling Dr. Biden the Vice Lady, but that just seemed rude. ;-)

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  17. JJ, I know Jael killed and was praised for it in the Bible. I also know that most Christians such as myself have difficulty thinking of women in combat roles.

    But here's what I *personally* think. Not everyone is so squeamish. If you sign up for the Army, I don't wanna hear about you need an exemption for this or that or you can't go into combat. If you're a cop, do the same job as the men. Same if you're a firefighter. If you're three-foot seven and can't lift old men out of burning buildings, find another profession. Pilots can't be blind, either, so you could hardly call that attitude discriminatory.

    I also feel the same way about gays in the military. If they are behaving lawfully, no reason they can't be there. Know what? I think if the government can't handle some of the uncomfortable aspects of hiring and retaining gays, they should NOT expect the private sector to.

    And...

    I've heard of that go back home-type argument given to women after WWII. Which I think is a personal decision.

    I think it is better for children to be reared in the home with a stay at home parent whenever possible. It just isn't always possible. And how many male lactation consultants do you know?

    There will always be some jobs that are pretty much female-only. :]

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  18. Luke, guess what? I met my husband in college, so maybe I'm a tad biased on this as well.

    But even my grandmother was college-educated and I cannot imagine wanting to keep her home from the world. To my knowledge, she never worked but she could really kick some major hiney with her knowledge about EVERYTHING until she got dementia. Even with the dementia, in the earlier stages she could still kick some major hiney. :]

    AND I usually buy cage-free, too! But wow it's expensive if you go through two or three dozen a week. Sometimes I buy regular. Shh.

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  19. I just want to say community college is nothing to be ashamed of. I went for a couple years and incurred zero debt to do it. Then I stepped up to the "big leagues" and got big league debt. The debt bothers me a lot so, I tell people to watch out for that.

    Oh, and I'm glad you didn't link because then you wouldn't be a lady of virtue, would you? ; ]

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  20. LOL I don't find anything wrong with linking, really. I just don't like people being nasty about it ... or... if I disagree with someone, sending all my readers to go flame their comment section.

    I know that at the drop of a hat that's just what you-all would do, right??

    Ok, maybe not. :p

    Do you really think I'm a lady of virtue? I mean, I try to be in the real sense of the word, but the word now has a stuffy hoopskirt kinda connotation, don't you think??

    Maybe I should call you a woman of piety right back LOL!!!

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  21. Do I get an offering?? Equal pay for equal work! :]

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  22. Sounds like the blogger is still in the dark ages. I suppose he doesn't think women should vote either.

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Non-troll comments always welcome! :)