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FDLS members have lost all children under five. In an extreme travesty of justice, families have been separated without due process in each of the individual cases. From watching video and reading internet news, the best I can glean is that some 16-year-old alleged that she was raped and abused by her older husband. Authorities say they don't know for sure who she is. They say they've never physically met her to discuss the charges. One wonders if she even exists at all.

And yet...

A warrant is issued to search the YFZ compound and the state systematically separates the families? I say "systematically" because... notice how they did this. First, the women and children are together in some other location. Maybe folks in America wouldn't be so outraged if the children can stay with their mammas. Suppose the men living there see they're going to leave their wives and children safe somewhere else, so they don't fight just then. Throw a few juicy tidbits on the evening news about how weird it is to have SEX WHEN YOU'RE 15 (yowie! That could never happen in mainstream America!!) and how the girls all dress like some backward Laura Ingalls, and you have yourself covered. People will lose interest and talk instead about a celebrity having too big a butt or learn the latest about the perfect tan.

Oh... but now the families are not "cooperating," (would you?) and we have to take away all children over the age of five so that we can get them away from the influence of the parent and question them properly.

I'm sure the state would be more than happy to admit if it made a mistake and just give the kids back. No way CPS would lead the children to say something that isn't entirely true. No way a scared kid would tell these strange adults who have total charge of their lives right now ANYTHING they think they want to hear.

Incidentally, the criticisms directed against the moms' leaving their children in CPS care to go to meetings, etc., even when they feel their children are in danger by CPS *does* make perfect sense. Who has the power here? Don't tell me you wouldn't go along with just about anything, tell them just about anything, and try to stay together with your family if you can. Know what? I'd probably be one going to the womens' shelter for "abused" women because it would play right into their hands. Tell them what they want to hear, oh, thanks for saving me! You're so wonderful (kiss kiss kiss) and I'm gonna divorce my husband and can you help me find a job and join the Democratic party and the Unitarian church blah blah blah.

Then when I get my kids back you will NEVER hear from me again. What was my name again?

Texas, America is watching. If you don't want another Waco, you'd best watch how you handle this. Give those kids back and apologize. Next time make sure you have a bunch of evidence before you act. All you're doing is teaching these folks that cooperation is going to make things WORSE and will lead to ever-tightening restrictions on the family and loss of their very homes and lives.

Shame on you.


  1. PS This is not to say I am alleging that the place is perfect. What I'm saying is that constitutionally, Texas had NO right doing what it did.

  2. Uh, I don't get it. Do you think polygamy is okay?

  3. Sure, I think polygamy is "ok" in that it seems to be PERMISSIBLE by God and I don't have the place to tell him what to allow or not. It's not the biblical ideal, though, b/c elders are supposed to be the husband of "one wife."

    BTW, that does NOT mean I would stand for a "new wife" moving in because culturally that's not where I am LOL! But I think we can live and let live on this one. Just don't ask me to support the 98,782 children this would produce with my tax dollars. Actually, I think the welfare thing ought to be done through the church.

    Hey. What do you think?? You always have new takes on things!!

  4. Well, I am not well versed on exactly what scriptures which say that men should not have multiple wives. I do know that it makes me very angry to even think about sharing my husband with some other woman. Is that anger just sin, or is it a righteous response to a situation that is not pleasing to God? I tend to think it's an appropriate response.

    I personally can't even begin to understand how women can just share their husband with one or more other women, it is beyond me. I can imagine a great deal of pain having to be endured by these women who believe that polygamy is acceptable and living that lifestyle while wanting emotional intimacy with a husband who spreads it all around. Or maybe they just don't care about or love their shared husband and just do it to be financially supported or whatever. Is that a good thing?

    When you say it is permissible by God are you talking about the old Testament? He allows a lot of things that aren't right in the world today. Do you believe what the evolutionists tend to say about how men are "not meant to be monogamous"? Thus when they screw around on you they can claim it's their scientific nature? *eyes rolling*

    I don't know. If God thinks polygamy is okay that really bothers me because I would die if I ever saw my husband with someone else. Is it really only the evil influence of romance movies and culture that makes me love him?

  5. Catherine, it's more that I don't see an express prohibition on multiple wives by God. And God certainly had a clue it was going on. Yet we hear nothing.

    As I said before, I don't think it's the IDEAL. Especially in light of the fact that so far as we know, Adam and Eve were alone in the garden.

    BTW God permits divorce, but it's a painful thing, also. SO I don't think you're wrong feeling that way at all.

    It isn't for me, and I would count polygamy the same as an affair if it happened in my marriage. That being said, I don't want to intrude my PERSONAL repulsion at the practice upon someone else when GOD doesn't seem to.

    We have so many other things to worry about culture-wise IMO.

  6. At the risk of not contributing a great deal to this debate: no wonder 'some' Christians have a bad name. I'm trying to live a Christian life, and this stuff is just confusing. I do NOT endorse polygamy in any way, shape or form, nor do I endorse child sexual abuse. In fact, I work in child protection and I'm afraid I may have approached this the same way the Texan authorities have. I'm in Australia, so it's a bit different, and our legislation is different too. Anyhoo, as I said: confusion abounds here!! It's great to discuss it though.

  7. We agree again! You forgot to mention that the state went in well armed with armored personel carriers. I don't think polygamy is biblically permissible, but that isn't the point. The point is that the state took up arms against a group of people without any real evidence of wrong doing and forcefully separated families. In the US you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. The man who allegedly fathered children with the mysterious teens turned himself in and was released. It doesn't seem there was enough evidence to hold him.

    The current custody case doesn't seem to hinge on whether or not the allegations are true. It hinges on the fact that most Americans, including myself, find these people's lifestyle and religion unacceptable. Young women are having children in the compound. And, you are right... if we are going to start breaking up families when teens are sexually active or pregnant, many traditional families will need to be separated. The psychologist testifying in the case found the environment "terrifying." Boys shouldn't go back; they might be trained to be pedophiles. The kids are taught that "outsiders" won't understand them and, in fact, try to change them. Well, that is true. Many, many families in the homeschooling community embrace modesty in dressing and define it in terms similarly to the FLDS group, so do many other groups who descended from the Anabaptists of the Reformation era. Are we going to take all their kids away too?

    And, I wonder, the HSLDA has been pushing for a parent's rights amendment, yet they have been silent. Some Christian organizations have been even worse. They assert that we should take these kids and their mothers and put them in Christian foster homes where they can be deprogrammed.

    It seems that people have forgotten that if we give our government control of what we teach our children, when (not if) they use it against us... we have no out. Those who are atheist or agnostics live in the delusion that their own worldview developed in a vacuum and think that we can separate these children from there parents and socialize them naturally.

    Christianity will lose its ability to impact our society; we will be silenced.


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